Legislature(1995 - 1996)
03/13/1995 10:10 AM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
Anchorage Legislative Information Office
March 13, 1995
10:10 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Lyda Green, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice-Chairman
Senator Johnny Ellis (via teleconference)
Senator Judy Salo (via teleconference)
OTHERS PRESENT
Senator Randy Phillips
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Mike Miller
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 98
"An Act making changes related to the aid to families with
dependent children program, the Medicaid program, the general
relief assistance program, and the adult public assistance program;
directing the Department of Health and Social Services to apply to
the federal government for waivers to implement the changes where
necessary; relating to eligibility for permanent fund dividends of
certain individuals who receive state assistance, to notice
requirements applicable to the dividend program; and providing for
an effective date."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
SB 98 - See Health, Education & Social Services minutes dated
3/8/95 and 3/10/95.
WITNESS REGISTER
Leonard Fabich, Teacher
Russian Mission, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed welfare as the largest barrier to
education. He read a letter from Julie
Fitzcowski.
Nancy Caughell
808 W. Bragaw #4
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported welfare reform, but noted problems
with SB 98.
Reverend J. L. Smith
903 E. 13th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed welfare and suggested returning
parental rights to the family.
Jack Cook, Assistant Pastor
3230 E. 41st Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed various welfare issues and did not
want the permanent fund dividend to be taken
from those who need it the most.
Donna Scott, Director
Tanana Chiefs Conference
122 1st Avenue
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Requested another teleconference with rural
areas on-line. Suggested focusing on job
creation.
Jack Doyle, Executive Director
Food Bank of Alaska
2121 Spar Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Mentioned the notion of working poor and
suggested addressing this issue in a case by
case manner.
Holly Hollis
P.O. Box 870675
Wasilla, Anchorage 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed the employment situation with
regards to welfare.
Sashinka Evans
College Student & Single Parent
1402 West 26 Avenue #B-12
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Related her own experience with welfare.
Joanne Yaskell
200 W. 34th Box 337
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested reviewing the criteria for emergency
medical relief, health care reform and
realizing that welfare reform involves
dignity.
Elden Sandvik
50 Year Alaskan Resident
P.O. Box 878464
Wasilla, Alaska 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Urged the committee to throw away SB 98.
Hosanna Lahaie Lee
1902 Logan
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Related her personal experience with welfare.
Pamela Lutgen-Sandvik, Executive Director
Social Services in Mat-Su
P.O. Box 878464
Wasilla, Alaska 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated that SB 98 would cost more than it
would save.
Molly Kudrin
P.O. Box 112174
Anchorage, Alaska 99511
POSITION STATEMENT: Related her personal experience with welfare.
Mary Raymond
P.O. Box 2335
Homer, Alaska 99603
POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested reviewing the regulations of welfare
agencies in order to allow flexibility for
individual cases.
Kathleen Owens
420 W. 54th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99518
POSITION STATEMENT: Related her personal experience with welfare.
Louise Charles, Coordinator
Job Oppportunities & Base Work Program
Tanana Chiefs Council
122 1st Avenue
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested improving school attendance and
educational programs. Discussed AFDC in
relation to rural areas.
Patrick Jamson
P.O. Box 1994
Bethel, Alaska 99559
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 98.
Virginia Charlie
P.O. Box 2327
Bethely, Alaska 99559
POSITION STATEMENT: Inaudible testimony.
Angela Mordan-Oxford
3741 Parsons #A
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Reviewed problems with various sections of
SB 98.
Debbie Bates
30 Year Alaskan Resident
8243 B Seaview
Anchorage, Alaska 99502
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed her experiences and the permanent
fund dividend as in SB 98.
Minnie Fisher
P.O. Box 873252
Wasilla, Alaska 99687
POSITION STATEMENT: Stated that the children would suffer under
the permanent fund dividend.
Elisabeth Kachlino
Teacher
1650 E 27th
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported welfare reform, but addressed
problems with the bill.
Roy Brittain
HC 60 Box 330-M
Copper Center, Alaska 99573
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed education and the increased costs of
health care.
Carol Olson
Educator
1032 W. 11th Avenue
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 98.
Bonnie McGrew
3642 W 88 Apt 210
Anchorage, Alaska 99502
POSITION STATEMENT: Related her personal experience.
Joy Roberts
Full-time Student and Single Mother
331 S. Bragaw
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed her situation, especially in regard
to the permanent fund dividend.
Tony Rauh
230 W. 14th 305
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Recounted his personal experience.
Carolyn Laffon
1346 Old Seward
Anchorage, Alaska 99515
POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested a transition program.
Kendall Thomas, Public Health Nurse
Alaska Women's Health Advocate
5350 Little Tree Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
POSITION STATEMENT: Predicted that SB 98 would cost more than it
would save.
Angela Salerno, Executive Director
National Association of Social Workers
POSITION STATEMENT: Recommended placing SB 98 in a subcommittee.
Jinan Phillips-Martini, Executive Director
Kenai Peninsula Care Center
320 S. Spruce
Kenai, Alaska 99611
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed SB 98.
Terry Baines
Sitka Tribe of Alaska
456 Katlian
Sitka, Alaska 99835
POSITION STATEMENT: Addressed various areas of welfare reform
Lynn Murphy
3701 Eureka Street 22C
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Discussed her personal situation.
Michael Totemoff
Tatitlek, Alaska 99677
POSITION STATEMENT: Expressed the need to feed, cloth, and shelter
the poor.
Mary Place
2820 Fishhook Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99654
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed cutting benefits.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 95-14, SIDE A
SHES - 3/13/95
SB 98 PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY ACT OF 1995
CHAIRMAN GREEN called the work session of the Senate Health,
Education and Social Services (HESS) Committee to order at 10:10
a.m. She noted that at present there were two pages of amendments
which would be presented at a later time. She informed those who
had signed up to testify that there would be a five minute limit on
testimony. As the work session progressed, the time allotted for
each testimony would be reduced in order to here as many people as
possible.
LEONARD FABICH, from the Russian Mission, felt that his life
experience made him highly qualified to comment on the current
welfare situation. He recounted his past experiences that varied
from trapping, commercial fishing, and teaching. In his opinion,
as an educator, welfare had created the largest barrier to
successful education. He stated that his effectiveness as a
teacher had been effected by welfare. In the eight years he has
taught in Russian Mission, Mr. Fabich had seen the attitude of the
students deteriorate and the drop out rate escalate. He noted that
it was not uncommon for students to drop out of school at age 16.
He explained that much of this can be attributed to community role
models; 50 percent of the village rely on some type of assistance.
He implied that those who receive assistance serve as role models
because they are the ones riding their snow machines during the
day, watching movies all night and sleeping until noon. He
informed everyone of the drop out statistics in the Russian Mission
community. Reduction and loss of benefits to those who do not
place value on education should be a priority. Mr. Fabich said
that in order to hold on to the present students, teachers are
decreasing the standards due to the overall poor work ethic of the
students. He felt that if all children were encouraged by their
parents to attend school and work towards good grades significant
changes in the success of education would result. Mr. Fabich
stated that the current welfare funding levels are too high. He
explained that the current culture of the Yupik Eskimo is being
lost.
Number 167
CHAIRMAN GREEN suggested that Mr. Fabich provide the committee with
any further comments in written testimony. She also suggested that
if their are others who share Mr. Fabich's frustration, they too
could send written testimony for the committee.
LEONARD FABICH read a letter from another teacher in the bush,
Julie Fitzcowski. She indicated that welfare should be reformed.
Many village people who receive public assistance now view it as a
right, not a helping hand which leads to an apathetic attitude.
She suggested that students of welfare families should be required
to attend school a certain number of days in order for the family
to continue to receive assistance. There should also be a cut-off
of welfare payments after a family reaches a preset limit in the
size of the family. She also suggested that there should not be
welfare payments for unmarried women under age 18 with children.
She hoped that the welfare system would be reformed to promote work
and accountability from its recipients.
Mr. Sabich informed the committee that Mr. Fitzcowski felt that
persons under the age of 25 who have not completed high school
should be required to acquire a GED or job training in order to
obtain benefits. Confirmation of student attendance and
satisfactory progress should be required monthly in order to review
eligibility of the children for benefits. Grants, bonuses, and
training should be offered so that people can establish home
businesses and leave the welfare system.
CHAIRMAN GREEN noted that Senators Ellis and Salo were on-line in
Juneau. She invited Cynthia Lafferty from Fairbanks to testify.
Number 230
SENATOR SALO asked who was present in Anchorage. She also inquired
as to the intentions for this meeting.
CHAIRMAN GREEN stated that testimony would be taken. She noted
that Senator Leman and Senator Randy Phillips were present in
Anchorage. She clarified that this meeting would be a work session
to allow testimony from the Anchorage LIO and the various
teleconference sites.
SENATOR SALO expressed concern in Chairman Green's calling the
meeting a work session. She pointed out that she and Senator Ellis
did not have copies of the amendments previously mentioned.
CHAIRMAN GREEN specified that the amendments had not been prepared.
After the meeting the amendments would be prepared and given to the
committee members. She reiterated that the purpose of the meeting
would be to take testimony.
SENATOR ELLIS noted that he would have planned on attending the
meeting in Anchorage if he had received notice from Senator Green's
office in enough time to make arrangements. He requested that if
a public hearing was scheduled in the future, the Minority be
notified in order to make arrangements to fully participate in the
hearing. He stated that the Minority did not receive notice in
enough time to make arrangements to attend the hearing in
Anchorage.
Number 278
NANCY CAUGHELL, testifying in Anchorage, supported welfare reform,
but indicated with regard to her personal experience the need to
leave the hold harmless in the permanent fund dividend which SB 98
would eliminate. She recounted her personal experience with the
welfare system and the barriers she had faced when attempting to
leave the system. Discontinuing assistance in three to five years
of people with long-term medical problems would hurt those people.
She informed everyone of the barriers she faced when attempting to
leave the welfare system. She addressed the issue of dead beat
parents.
CHAIRMAN GREEN stated that they are trying to promote workfare,
jobs, and encouraging everyone to continue their education.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asked if Ms. Caughell's three children were
receiving child support. NANCY CAUGHELL said no and explained her
situation with the children's father. She noted that the children
did receive a permanent fund dividend.
Number 358
REVEREND J. L. SMITH, testifying from Anchorage, pointed out that
it is easy to plan, but implementing the plan is difficult. He
suggested that the reality of possible cuts should be reviewed. He
informed the committee that often unskilled low income employment
does not pay enough, the benefits are better. He pointed out that
taking everything from dead beat dads would create another problem;
who would want to work when at the end of the week they do not
receive anything. Another problem is related to job skills. He
suggested that the education system be reconstructed to allow skill
training in the last few years of a student's education. This
would help those who cannot go to a college. He noted that this
skill training had been used in Montgomery, Alabama.
Reverend Smith stated that those who need the permanent fund
dividend are those on welfare. Most people receive welfare because
there are no jobs. He indicated that the reality of cuts would be
the loss of jobs which would put more people on the streets and
would probably lead to increases in crime. He expressed the need
to review and attempt to solve the problems of the family unit.
Often welfare is the best choice when jobs are low paying and/or do
not offer benefits. He asserted that everyone should realize that
we all made this problem and took away the parental rights of the
family. He suggested that the state return the parental rights
back to the family.
Number 415
JACK COOK, Assistant Pastor at Greater Friendship Baptist Church,
asked what would be done with these parents and children that will
no longer receive public assistance. He discussed the need for
families to assume their rightful place in society. Fathers should
be accountable for their children and have the choice to
participate in the raising of their children. Perhaps, there
should be parental training. He suggested that men who are on the
run due to back child support and face the garnishment of their
wages should be given a moratorium in order to regain their
respect.
Mr. Cook addressed the exploitation of women. He suggested
restoring the criminal penalties for rape to its former status.
Abortion should only be legalized in the situation of the eminent
death of the mother. He felt that if a women willingly has
intercourse with a man, they should be equally responsible. A woman
who has been violated should be able to name the person responsible
without fear. Children should be accountable to their parents. He
expressed the need for schools and government to support parental
efforts to nurture and support their children's well being. In
conclusion, Mr. Cook stated that the permanent fund dividend was
granted to all Alaskans; it would be ridiculous to take the
permanent fund dividend away from those who need it the most.
SENATOR LEMAN asked both pastors who they felt should be primarily
responsible for providing for needy people.
In response, JACK COOK said that historically, the local community
has been responsible for the welfare of those in the immediate area
of the community. He explained that the structure had been set up
so that when the welfare of the needy could not be fulfilled by the
local community the next largest entity would take on that
responsibility until it could not fulfill the needs and the next
largest entity would become involved. This chain of responsibility
and support would reach all the way to the state level if necessary
and perhaps, the federal level. Mr. Cook felt that the needy
family and the local community would know their needs the best.
The discussion continued, REVEREND J. L. SMITH asserted that a lot
more could be done to help with the issue of welfare. He explained
that many churches do not have benevolence offerings while others
offer as much support as possible. There is a varied notion within
the church community as to the level of involvement the church
should have. He pointed out that often the church is heavily
involved in attacking social ills, but the community does not
notice what takes place in the church. The church could do more.
The community should be involved, they should recognize what the
church has to offer.
Number 510
SENATOR LEMAN felt that the pastors had been correct in pointing
out that the welfare system had been changed. The system now
places the federal government as the entity primarily responsible
for the welfare of the needy instead of the local community. He
felt that individuals should be the ones primarily responsible for
the needy. He agreed with the pastors that the churches could do
more and that individuals should do more to attack this problem.
CHAIRMAN GREEN announced that in room 210, people could listen to
the teleconference and if they wished to testify they would be
called. She noted that testimony would now be limited to two to
three minutes since more people had called in to testify.
DONNA SCOTT, Director of the Tanana Chiefs Conference in Fairbanks,
informed everyone that she was involved in a coalition on
employment and training and organization for the non-profit
employment and training directories throughout the state. She also
noted that she is a member of the Alaska Job Training Council. She
explained that the Tanana Chiefs Conference administered the JOBS
program for 14 villages in the Interior and eight villages in the
Arctic Slope. She expressed concern about the process surrounding
SB 98. Why are the rural areas not on-line; they too will be
affected, not just the larger urban communities. She requested
that the committee have another teleconference to accommodate the
rural areas.
Ms. Scott addressed the testimony of the first witness, Mr. Leonard
Fabich. The reason people are on welfare in the rural areas is due
to the lack of jobs. She emphasized that the discussion should be
focused on job creation, economic development.
Number 559
JACK DOYLE, Executive Director of the Food Bank of Alaska,
explained that the Food Bank serves as an umbrella for over 200
other non-profit agencies throughout Alaska. SB 98 cuts welfare
from six to 15 percent. He expressed concern with these cuts
because the money seems to be going to people who need it. Where
will the safety net be for those people after these cuts? He was
concerned with the denial of the permanent fund dividend; that
money is needed. Perhaps, the permanent fund dividend could be
spread over 12 months instead of receiving all the money at once.
He posed the question: how can welfare recipients make it with less
assistance when they cannot make it now at the current level of
assistance?
Mr. Doyle discussed the phenomena of the working poor which is
defined as both family members working at part-time positions which
leave the family at below the poverty level. These people often
work at lower paying jobs that do not offer medical insurance. He
suggested that often medical bills become the priority and the
children go to school hungry. Hungry children do not learn as well
which could result in an uneducated population entering the labor
market. He addressed the notion of training for existing jobs.
Mr. Doyle commented that many state social service agencies are
already financially stressed and additional clients will not be
served if there is no safety net for these agencies. He pointed
out that all these agencies look to the same outside sources of
funding. Funding will become competitive with a limited amount of
funding. He suggested that this issue should be dealt with in a
case by case manner.
TAPE 95-14, SIDE B
Number 590
Mr. Doyle questioned the practicality of forcing single parent
families to live with their parents. He urged the committee to
move with caution on these issues. Who will provide the safety net
for those who need assistance and who will provide the funding for
that assistance?
Number 587
HOLLY HOLLIS, testifying from Wasilla, expressed concern that the
suggestions to employ these people did not also address making jobs
available. There are many people who would like to work, but there
may not be jobs available or they do not have the proper education.
Furthermore, when these people are employed, they often face low
rages that do not support the family. She pointed out that the
welfare system was set up to be available to everyone. She
suggested that a volunteer program could be utilized to address the
issues of behavior and responsibility for these people. She
expressed dismay that persons on welfare often face condescension
from others.
SASHINKA EVANS, a college student and single parent, said that she
was not opposed to welfare reform, but without assistance she could
not attend college. She posed the scenario that without assistance
she would be working a minimum wage job and face enormous child
care expenses; she would not be able to earn enough to live and pay
for child care. Welfare reform should acknowledge those who are in
her situation. There are people trying to do better for
themselves.
CHAIRMAN GREEN applauded Ms. Evans efforts to obtain a better
education.
JOANNE YASKELL read a portion of her story that ran in the Daily
News last week. She was proud of the fact that she is a divorced
mother of two who has provided for herself and her children. She
is an active member of the community who owns her own business.
She said that she never thought that she would be asking for
support from the non-profit agencies for which she had once
contracted her services. She explained that she became unable to
obtain affordable health care insurance due to a pre-existing
condition. Her children are covered under their father's health
care insurance. She recounted her surgeries and their costs. With
medical expenses in excess of $33,000, no income, and minimal
savings, Ms. Yaskell applied for emergency medical assistance. She
was not eligible for emergency medical assistance because her bank
account of $542.84 was $42.84 more than allowable. She asserted
that she no longer has even $42.00. She did not for how long she
would be on a schedule with her children because she cannot provide
for them.
Number 500
Ms. Yaskell pointed out that the requirements for emergency medical
relief were the same as those for AFDC. That does not make sense.
She expressed confusion in the reasoning behind placing someone who
needs emergency medical relief, a temporary situation, on a long-
term program. After her article ran, she has received 15 callers
in support of her, two callers felt that if she had stayed with her
husband he would not be in this situation, and six callers told her
that she did not play the game. Those six callers said that Ms.
Yaskell should not have admitted to having a bank account or being
a professional. She asserted that she had integrity and would not
lie in order to receive assistance. In conclusion, Ms. Yaskell
asked the committee to review the criteria for emergency medical
relief, review health care reform, and remember that welfare reform
is also about dignity as well as money.
ELDEN SANDVIK, an Alaskan resident for over 50 years, expressed
shame in regards to SB 98. He suggested that welfare and reform be
defined. SB 98 is not welfare reform, it is an attack on the poor.
To achieve welfare reform, the need for welfare must be eliminated.
He expressed disbelief to the idea of taking the permanent dividend
fund away from the blind, the elderly, the disabled, and poor
children. He noted that he had worked as an eligibility technician
for three years in a public assistance office and he had never seen
the so called "welfare queen." He acknowledged that there is a
welfare problem.
Mr. Sandvik pointed out that the legislature could not survive on
a $100 per diem which equals approximately $3,000 per month so they
raised the per diem to equal approximately $4,500 per month. The
per diem is in addition to their salary. In comparison to that
situation, a welfare mother with one child is expected to live on
$821 per month and now she would face a reduction. He remembered
that someone had made the suggestion that welfare recipients need
assistance in budgeting their money; perhaps, the legislators need
assistance in budgeting their money as well. He pointed out past
inconsistences in administrations. Welfare for the rich needs to
be addressed. There has been $60 million worth of subsidized state
loans to the those that have money. He urged the committee to
throw this bill in the dump.
Number 447
HOSANNA LAHAIE LEE, testifying from Anchorage, was appalled that a
welfare recipient, herself, had to notify the media about this
meeting and that testimony was now being limited to three minutes.
Two or three minutes of testimony is not sufficient. She noted
that she has a chronic illness with a probable secondary diagnosis.
She said that she would give her life in order to be able to work
again. She informed the committee that she receives social
security disability and disability assistance. After reporting
that she received $65 per month, she lost her Medicare because that
is $32 per month more than is allowable.
Ms. Lee pointed out that most of the legislators do not have family
members on assistance and implied that they cannot know about the
situation. She inquired as to who the legislators were helping.
She addressed a successful pilot program in Alaska. She challenged
the committee to have more of these meetings. The truth regarding
the availability of funds, jobs, child care, and skills training
should be revealed. She explained that she had applied for a
program and while applying she met a man who was applying as well.
This man had children. She wanted to give this man the job and
intended to do so. She recounted various stories of welfare
recipients. She asserted that having the funds to focus on
people's self-esteem is critical. She concluded by recommending
the consolidation of services with individual's in the community
being mentors.
CHAIRMAN GREEN requested a copy of Ms. Lee's testimony in order to
put it in the packet. An indiscernible discussion ensued between
the senators and Ms. Lee.
Number 351
In response to the senators, Ms. Lee explained that after sitting
in welfare offices and talking to individuals there, she had
discovered that people coming to Alaska did want to work. Those
same people cited child care as a problem. She pointed out the
need for a comprehensive review to stop the shame; help people help
themselves.
CHAIRMAN GREEN said that the work fair portion of the bill attempts
to address what Ms. Lee spoke of. HOSANNA LEE emphasized that the
rules that penalizing people like herself should be changed. She
explained the shame she feels in receiving welfare. She charged
the committee to help everyone to become employed and increase
their self-esteem.
PAMELA LUTGEN-SANDVIK, testifying from Mat-Su, noted that Section
28 and the increase in Medicaid coverage are positive aspects of
SB 98. The remainder of the bill poses a major punishment to the
poor, disabled, elderly, and the blind. She pointed out that the
explanation of SB 98 states that the bill attempts to provide the
opportunity and the incentive to become self sufficient. That
specifies the problem with cutting welfare, nothing is offered in
return for cutting welfare. She explained that there are
approximately 1,500 to 2,000 AFDC families in her community, there
are only 18 or 19 jobs in the paper. There is no work for these
people.
Ms. Lutgen-Sandvik, Executive Director of Social Services, informed
the committee that there are no jobs to give the people she sees in
her agency. She mentioned that a clerk position received 21
applicants, some of which have college degrees. She expressed
dislike of the permanent dividend portion of SB 98. She questioned
if the working parent who barely makes it now would still receive
their permanent fund dividend.
Ms. Lutgen-Sandvik pointed out that SB 98 places additional
responsibilities on the Division of Public Assistance (DPA) such as
alcohol and substance abuse screening, school attendance screening,
mental and emotional support systems. DPA cannot keep up with the
work they have now and when people quit the division does not fill
the position. SB 98 would cost more money than it would save.
Number 289
MOLLY KUDRIN, currently on welfare, said that she did not like
being on welfare. The six to 15 percent cut wouls hurt those on
welfare even more. She urged the committee not to take away the
permanent fund dividend which she uses for the well-being of her
children. She noted that she had worked for the federal government
and after leaving that job she returned to school for computer
technology. She is hoping that the state will hire her. She wants
to help herself as well as having the state help her get off
assistance.
Ms. Kudrin asked Chairman Green if she would be willing to give up
her permanent fund dividend. Everyone has the right to receive the
permanent fund dividend. She recounted a hardship that she
experienced during Christmas. She commented that she could help
herself and was going to school and wanted to work.
CHAIRMAN GREEN said that they wanted SB 98 to create more
opportunities and flexibility in encouraging people to return to
work.
Number 213
MARY RAYMOND, testifying from Homer, reiterated the need to not
punish people by taking away the permanent fund dividend. She
reminded the committee that the welfare program often discourages
people because as soon as people on assistance attempt to help
themselves and they make a few dollars over the limit, they lose
their benefits. There are other programs that could be cut such as
the longevity bonus. She suggested reviewing the regulations of
the welfare agencies so as to allow a flexibility for individual
cases. She charged the legislative body to review manners in which
to create employment.
CHAIRMAN GREEN reiterated the need to allow flexibility of agency
workers to use exceptions and waivers in certain cases. She
announced that another statewide teleconference would be held on
Saturday, March 25th in Juneau. The meeting would be properly
noticed in the papers. She noted that anyone can call in.
CHAIRMAN GREEN stated that she intended to remove the permanent
fund dividend portion of SB 98. She explained that the permanent
fund dividend is a Department of Revenue issue. This legislation
attempts to help the Department of Health & Social Services better
serve the needs of those needing assistance. The permanent fund
dividend can better be handled in another forum.
Number 149
SENATOR ELLIS noted for everyone that removing the permanent fund
dividend portion of SB 98 should not be of great relief. Denial of
the permanent fund dividend to those living in poverty is contained
in another house and senate bill both of which are moving very
quickly in the process towards becoming law.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS informed everyone that the senate bill was
SB 37 of which he was prime sponsor. SB 37 is currently in Senate
Finance. He pointed out that SB 37 exempts those who receive
Supplemental Security Income (SSI) or Adult Public Assistance (APA)
which add up to approximately 8,000 people. Those who receive SSI
or APA would receive their permanent fund dividend as well as their
current assistance. He noted that all others receiving other types
of assistance would not receive their dividend.
SENATOR ELLIS clarified that the other 24,000 would include the
poor children and their parents. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS replied
that would be correct.
SENATOR ELLIS asked Senator Randy Phillips if he knew the status of
Representative Kott's bill. SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS did not know
the status of that bill. Senator Randy Phillips noted that he and
Representative Kott had not coordinated their legislation.
Number 116
KATHLEEN OWENS stated that she was currently a resident at Claire
House. She emphasized that she needed AFDC now. She did not think
it was fair to take assistance away from her. People on assistance
are not lazy. She explained that she had graduated from high
school and she attended Girl's State as well. She emphasized that
everyone needs health care; Medicaid should remain. She explained
that currently her doctor had ordered that she not work due to her
high risk pregnancy. She recounted her bad experience with child
care. Funding should not be cut from those, like herself, who are
doing the best that they can.
In response to one of the senators, Ms. Owens informed everyone she
came with her husband to Alaska in order to work in Dutch Harbor.
Ms. Owens discussed her history of abuse. She stated that the
people at Claire House were wonderful and had helped her
tremendously.
TAPE 95-15, SIDE A
Number 006
LOUISE CHARLES, Job Opportunities & Base Work Program Coordinator,
Tanana Chiefs Conference, testifying from Fairbanks, informed the
committee that she is originally from Southwest Alaska and is a
Yupik Eskimo. She informed the committee that people use snow
machines for subsistence food gathering activities. Ms. Charles
thinks school attendance and educational programs should be
improved to encourage students to strive for higher educational
opportunities.
Number 060
Ms. Charles reminded committee members that the cost of living is
two to six times higher in rural Alaska, so decreasing AFDC would
severely impact rural areas. There are also few employment
opportunities if any in rural Alaska. She expressed the need to
coordinate employment programs and local-hire programs. Ms.
Charles thinks things are moving to quickly, and we need long-term
goals.
Number 090
PATRICK JAMSON, testifying from Bethel, opposed SB 98. He
applauded encouraging AFDC recipients to seek jobs, but in rural
Alaska, there are no jobs available.
Number 129
VIRGINIA CHARLIE, testifying from Bethel, stated she works in the
same office as Mr. Jamson. Due to unintelligible teleconferece
transmission the remainder of Ms. Charlie's testimony is unclear.
Number 139
ANGELA MORDAN-OXFORD, testifying from Anchorage, stated that
Section 1 infers that people on public assistance have no desire to
take personal responsibility. Section 2 penalizes children for
decisions made by adults, and for circumstances over which they
have no control. She felt that the permanent fund dividend
provided basic needs not afforded by AFDC. Ms. Mordan-Oxford
stated that Section 4 does not allow for rising rental payments in
the Anchorage area. Section 10 does not have proper regulations.
Section 16 does not allow for parents of handicapped children. A
parent might be employable, but that does not mean they can afford
to be employed. If they have a child with pre-existing conditions
who would not be covered by their employer's health insurance they
often cannot afford to work. Ms. Mordan-Oxford asks how "totally
handicapped" would be defined.
Number 175
Ms. Mordan-Oxford commented that the section addressing personal
responsibility is slanderous. Ms. Mordan-Oxford related her
personal experience with her handicapped child and the difficulties
they have had. She also questioned dividing Anchorage in to four
project areas and asked for an explanation on "uncompensated work
in a project area."
In response to Ms. Mordan-Oxford, CHAIRMAN GREEN replied SB 98 does
not contain any language referring to group homes. MS. MORDAN-
OXFORD declared that SB 98 does refer to group homes: it
stipulates that teenage mothers to be in group homes, foster homes,
or maternity homes.
DEBBIE BATES, testifying from Anchorage, informed the committee she
is a 30-year Alaska resident, and was in the work force for more
than 15 years. Ms. Bates stated that she has two children, and it
costs more than the amount she pays for rent to pay someone to
raise her children for her while she goes to work. In order for
her to pay for child care and still meet her minimum living
expenses, she must make $14 per hour. She has a college degree,
and still cannot find a job that pays enough to support her family.
Ms. Bates remarked, regarding the cutting of permanent fund
dividend to public assistance recipients, that the legislature is
engineering punitive damages against recipients. The only other
group excluded from receiving the permanent fund dividend are
criminals. That is not fair. Ms. Bates expressed the need to
teach people how to budget their money and to become self
sufficient, not just have someone tell them to be self sufficient,
without giving them the tools.
Number 258
MINNIE FISHER, testifying from Mat-Su, testified that there needs
to be welfare reform. There should be stricter field
investigations on welfare recipients. We need in-state job
training. Ms. Fisher thinks the children are the ones who would be
hit hardest by the provision taking away permanent fund dividend.
She asked Chairman Green to come with her when the chairman gets
home to see how people spend their dividends.
Number 290
ELISABETH A. KACHLINO, teacher, testifying from Anchorage, stated
she is in favor of welfare reform: no system is perfect, no system
will make everyone happy. However, she is present to speak on
behalf of the students she has taught in the Anchorage School
District. She expressed concern with the denial of the permanent
fund dividend and the creation of classes of citizenship, the
necessity of children to use Medicare and Medicaid to obtain
necessary medical services, and the damage which would be done to
family relationships when they face financial problems. She agreed
that parents should be responsible, but this bill would penalize
the children. The efforts of the legislature and congress are not
reform; they would only further stratify social classes, and
nothing in the proposed reform would assure parent responsibility.
Responsibility can be neither enacted nor enforced. She suggested
working toward assisting, not penalizing. Ms. Kachlino informed
the committee that she already supplies her students with many
things their families cannot afford. She predicted that there
would be more family break-down if aid is cut further.
Number 330
Ms. Kachlino asserted that the state should end everyone's free
ride: the citizens of Alaska are not over-taxed. She stated her
parents, who live in Pennsylvania, paid $3,000 dollars last year
for school taxes alone. Pennsylvania does not give senior citizen
tax breaks, either. Ms. Kachlino recommended re-implementing a $10
a year school tax which would go directly to the schools.
Number 350
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asked Ms. Kachlino at what school she
teaches. MS. KACHLINO said that she teaches at Muldoon Elementary.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asked Ms. Kachlino how parents spend their
children's dividends. MS. KACHLINO noted that one family went to
Hawaii. She thought that was frivolous, but that was a family
decision; a decision everyone should have a right to make. Other
families spend their dividends on medical, clothing, and housing
needs.
Number 359
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS stated the intent of the dividend program
was to insure the permanent fund, and for recipients to purchase
desired or needed services. Senator Phillips asserted that
dividends were supposed to be used for the purchase of services
people request of the government.
MS. KACHLINO reminded Senator Phillips that the income tax was
abolished because the state did not need the money when oil
revenues became large. She said that is no longer the case, and
Alaskans are not over-taxed. Ms. Kachlino stated she is willing to
pay more taxes. Most people should be willing to pay. She
recommends re-implementing school and income taxes.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS noted that the school tax would only
generate about $3,000,000 or $4,000,000. MS. KACHLINO interjected,
that is $3,000,000 or $4,000,000 we don't have right now.
SENATOR ELLIS commented that it would be implemented at the 1969
level.
Number 378
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS repeated that the intent of the dividend
program was to be used for desired services. The new generation of
kids receiving dividends think they can spend it any way they want.
Senator Phillips expressed his belief that most dividends are spent
on non-necessities.
Number 392
MS. KACHLINO informed the committee that "Johnny", who already
knows he is a "have not", will know so even more during the period
of October - December when the dividend checks are distributed.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS reminded Ms. Kachlino that under current
law, a child who does not receive a dividend can apply for missed
dividends.
Number 399
ROY BRITTAIN, testifying from Glennallen, opposed parts of SB 98.
He commented that other things have contributed to the short-fall
in the state treasury. During the surplus years, money was being
spent by the state like a bunch of drunk sailors. The high fees
charged by medical and health-care facilities and the spiraling
cost of education have contributed to the problem. Mr. Brittain
does not think the rising cost of education has improved education.
He stated that for people earning minimum wage, almost any medical
situation is beyond their ability to pay. He suggested removing
the permanent fund dividend from state employees and legislators
and other people receiving state funds. Those people are no better
than the handicapped. Mr. Brittain also suggestes looking into
fraud and pork-barreling. The most unfortunate people should be
able to vote themselves a raise, just like the legislators do. If
it's good enough for the legislators, it should be good enough for
the rest of us.
Number 425
CAROL OLSON, testifying from Anchorage, stated she is an Anchorage
educator and has been in Alaska since 1969 and is aware of the
history behind the dividend. She has no connection with welfare,
other than some of her students being recipients. Ms. Olson
objected to SB 98 and to the denial of permanent fund dividend to
recipients of public aid. She objected to recipients being
permanently taken off the welfare rolls at the end of five years,
regardless of need.
CHAIRMAN GREEN interjected that SB 98 would not do that. She
stated that there is flexibility built in to the bill, and that
judgement calls could be made.
Number 445
MS OLSON found it ironic that legislators increased their per diem,
but want to decrease welfare benefits by six to 15 percent. She
hoped people would keep in mind the need to be their brothers and
sisters keepers.
Number 461
BONNIE MCGREW, testifying from Anchorage, stated she is on
disability. Medicaid does not cover a lot of health needs and if
the permanent fund dividend is denied, it will cause hardships.
Ms. McGrew stated that her health problems had caused her to quit
work because she was not able to get insurance.
CHAIRMAN GREEN asked Ms. McGrew if she would be staying in contact
with Senator Phillips. BONNIE MCGREW responded she was.
Number 471
JOY ROBERTS, a full-time student at the University of Alaska and
single mother informed the committee that she is on the
chancellor's list. She is halfway through school. Ms. Roberts
explained that she began receiving public assistance when she was
pregnant with her youngest child, and her husband left her. Of her
six children, four have special needs. Ms. Roberts emphasized that
she had given to the welfare system when she was working, and she
planed to do the same in the future. There are people out there
who are trying. She plans to be off welfare in a couple of years
when she receives her degree. She has paid for most of her
education herself with her permanent fund. If the legislature
wants to take away dividends from people whom they feel do not
spend those dividends properly, they should take it away from
everyone they feel do not spend it properly, not just single
parents. That is discrimination; it is not right. Ms. Roberts
stated she supports herself and her six children on $1,300 per
month. When her husband left her, she could have gotten a full-
time job, but with three children not in school, her day-care
expenses would have been greater than her salary.
Number 524
SENATOR LEMAN asked Ms. Roberts if she is receiving child support.
JOY ROBERTS explained that she does receive child support which
goes directly to public assistance. She does not receive it; it
reimburses the system. Ms. Roberts informed the committee that the
paperwork involved in receiving assistance is invasive. She is
trying to work with the system, and she does not want anything more
taken away from her.
SENATOR LEMAN acknowledged the importance of Ms. Roberts' decision
not to take the child support so she could go on welfare. BONNIE
ROBERTS explained that child support was raised in the fall, for
that reason receiving child support would prove more beneficial.
However, that child support would have lasted only six months,
until her oldest child turned 18. If Senator Leman had ever gone
through the paperwork to receive public aid, he would realize that
it would be easier not to receive the child support and remain on
welfare rather than going through the welfare process again. She
does not have time as a full-time student and a single parent of
six children to jump through all the hoops. She does not know what
it is like just to have an extra 15 minutes.
CHAIRMAN GREEN thanked Ms. Roberts for pointing out that flaw in
the system.
Number 556
TONY RAUH, testifying from Anchorage, informed the committee he has
a head injury. He and his wife are both disabled and both receive
SSI and APA. Mr. Rauh reported that the State of Alaska has an
insurance program for people who can't get regular health
insurance, but the premiums are too high for individuals receiving
disability. He wants to know if the state could give a price break
on the insurance premium to people with disabilities. He also does
not want the permanent fund dividend denied to people with
disabilities.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asked Mr. Rauh if he was on SSI or APA.
TONY RAUH clarified that he is on both.
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS told Mr. Rauh that in that case, he would
continue to receive SSI, APA, and a permanent fund dividend. TONY
RAUH commented that Alaska is better than other states.
TAPE 95-15, SIDE B
Number 578
CAROLYN LAFFON pointed out that the people who are on welfare now
need to be separated from those who are going to be on welfare in
the future. She said there should be some transition program for
people who are currently on welfare and a program for teaching the
new rules.
Number 551
CYNTHIA LAFFERTY, a mother on welfare with a special needs
daughter, emphasized that she is doing everything possible to make
her daughter a whole human being when she grows up however, right
now she needs extra help and extra money. There is a difference
between people who are trying to get themselves mentally together
and those people who do nothing for themselves.
KENDALL THOMAS, Public Health Nurse representing the Alaska Women's
Health Advocate (AWHA), said they recognize the need for reform to
the existing welfare system, but they do not support SB 98. SB 98
lacks the provisions to offer long-term sustaining solutions to
assist the people of the state to provide for themselves and their
families. Cutting benefits puts families in peril. Many of the
families receiving benefits that will face cuts are single mothers
with children. She predicted that SB 98 would cost the government
more in the long-term than it could ever hope to save the state.
AWHA supports reform that keeps the dignity of the family in tact,
offers realistic solutions to getting off public assistance while
supporting individuals and families to assume responsibility for
their actions.
Number 495
ANGELA SALERNO, Executive Director of the National Association of
Social Workers, supported welfare reform and agreed with the
objectives of SB 98. Some of the provisions are excellent, some
are flawed, and some simply won't succeed in promoting the
independence we are all looking for. The reduction of benefits in
Section 7 will make families less able to care for their children
which is the goal of the AFDC program. This bill calls for denial
of interim public assistance as the first part of the appeals
process. They would then be forced to repay benefits...
Ms. Salerno supported Section 26 which regards treatment for drug
abuse. She heartily supported Section 28. She supported Section
29 which establishes a workfare program; the JOBS program in this
state functions very well. Alaska has an economy that cannot
support everyone nor afford a living wage to everyone. The state
does not spend five cents on skills training. She explained that
anyone who needs job training in this state must go to JTPA whose
funds are being cut at the federal level. More funding is needed
for job training and we need more cheap management for people who
they track into work. There needs to be a variety of services to
ensure that people return to work and stay there.
Ms. Salerno recommended that SB 98 be put into a subcommittee where
it could be worked on without an emotionally charged atmosphere.
She strongly supported having a task force to address the issue.
She offered her services and the services of her organization.
SENATOR LEMAN, referring to her comment about a task force, noted
that the legislative process is a public process where everyone can
have input. Ms. Salerno believed that cutting the budget for
programs which are severely needed was possibly motivated by
politics.
SENATOR PHILLIPS agreed that the legislature is the proper forum
for discussing this issue. Ms. Salerno did not want to discourage
the process. She offered her services and emphasized the fact that
welfare reform was a huge job which needed as much information as
possible. Everyone needs to work together.
JINAN PHILLIPS-MARTINI, Executive Director, Kenai Peninsula Care
Center, opposed SB 98. She explained that they treat adolescents
with emotional problems as well as work with families to resolve
family conflicts. She said there are social problems and then
there are problems with personal irresponsibility. The way to
overcome poverty is to create quality affordable child care and
health coverage, and good paying jobs.
She commented that much legislation on this issue does not respect
the job of parenting which is one of the most important, most
difficult, and most time consuming of any job. Parenting is of
greater value than going out into the work force and earning money.
If parents are not allowed time with their kids, they cannot
provide the structure and discipline their children need.
She was concerned that the reforms try to punish the few abusers.
The abusers are not the majority of people on welfare programs.
Reform in this direction would create desperation and people who
cannot make ends meet would resort to crime.
Number 317
TERRY BAINES, Sitka, said he works for the Sitka Tribe of Alaska on
a tribal management grant to the Indian Health Service. He also
has two severely handicapped children who receive a significant
amount of assistance from the state. It is important to offer
incentives for citizens to become self sufficient; he agreed with
people being personally responsible.
He cited several issues that he felt were as important as the
financial aspect of the welfare reform: subsistence culture,
mental health, and alcoholism. They need to be addressed as a
system. Budget cuts leave out enhanced economic development
opportunities in rural areas.
TERRY BAINES said that abuse of the welfare system has become a
lifestyle for some people. Time is needed for families to
transition from the system to self sufficiency. There should be
the opportunity to develop some skills, education, and training to
head in that direction. As abuse and fraud of the system are
addressed, care should be taken in order to not penalize families
and children for federal government lack of foresight.
Number 272
LYNN MURPHY informed the committee that although she has a southern
accent, she didn't move here from Mississippi because of Alaska's
welfare program. She has three children and has been receiving
public funds for three years. She said she now owns property and
must pay taxes. Without the Permanent Fund, she cannot pay her
taxes. Her children count on having new school clothes in October,
because of the Permanent Fund. She said that she was not on
welfare by choice.
Number 227
MICHAEL TOTEMOFF asked them not to harm the elderly, the disabled,
the poor, or the children. He asked that the poor be fed, clothed,
and given shelter.
Number 222
MARY PLACE, testifying in Anchorage, informed everyone that each
time she tried to get off welfare the support system had not been
there. She has tried to go to school for two and half years.
There was no daycare and she was going through a divorce. She has
had to stop going to school because she could not afford it. She
opposed cutting benefits.
At this point there was an indiscernible conversation between Ms.
Place and Senator Green.
The meeting was adjourned at 1:35 p.m.
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